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The fertility rate of a country or region is defined as the number of children an average woman has during her lifetime.
A fertility rate of around 2 is needed to maintain a stable population, essentially that replaces the mother and father; when they die, their children replce them. A rate more than 2 generally increases the population, and a rate less than 2 causes the population to decline.
The average global fertility rate is now about 2.3. Modern countries (shown in blue in the map) have fertility rates less than 2, which means their native populations will decline over time; immigration is needed to maintain (or increase) population. Third World countries (shown in brown in the map, especially Africa) have rates above 2, and their native populations are increasing.
Prior to the 1950s, almost every country had fertility rates well above 2. Since then, fertility rates have dropped rapidly in many countries. Many demographers postulate that the entry of women into the workforce (which started during WW II), and the rise of feminism, is a key factor in the decline in fertility rates. More women than ever in human history now have careers, which makes it difficult to have children. A career woman may decide to have no children, or maybe only one child, since it's so hard to balance raising a child with a career. Cost of living is also high, making it difficult for a couple to survive on just one income.
What do you think? Has feminism been a major cause in the decline of fertility rates in the world? Please vote in the poll and provide a comment/opinion if you wish.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
26Opinion
Voted for the second option. Feminism may be a factor, but if so, it is a very modest one. In fact, as economies modernize and industrialize, birthrates tend to drop. That is pretty much the historical norm.
The reasons for this are complex. Leaving aside questions of religion - religious cultures tend to have higher birthrates and then, as secularization sets in, the imperative to "be fruitful and multiply" loses its' sociological/cultural force.
Further, in more primitive economies where farming and mercantile trade is the norm, the need for more children to "help in the fields" and such tends to result in higher birthrates. Not to mention that in such primitive cultures, the medical technologies tended to spur on higher birthrates.
This both because people tend to have more babies because the lifespan of newborn children tended to be shorter. Also, because the technology of birth control was not as advanced.
Then, as economies modernize and industrialize, the need for large families declines while the cost of such families tends to rise. Throw in then, too, that mortality rates decline and lifespans increase. So people tend to have fewer children, but they children they have live longer and are able to take care of their parents as their parents age.
Presently, the nations with the lowest birthrates are all heavily industrialized and modernized quickly. Japan has, in demographic terms, the oldest population on Earth. Italy the second. This because not only are these countries heavily industrialized, but they did so quickly.
Interestingly, the nation with the third oldest population on Earth is China. This because China experienced its' industrial revolution and economic modernization - and thanks to communism, its' secularization - relatively quickly by historical standards and then aggravated it with deliberate social engineering in the form of the "one child policy." A policy it enforced with vicious brutality.
Ironically, China has been rushing to reverse the decline in birthrates as it now realizes that such a decline has its' own negative effects. Yet, they have discovered that it is easier to prevent the birth of children than it is to re-start the machine, so to speak.
As to the USA, it has, by the standard of industrialized societies, a relatively high birthrate and young population. To be sure, the former is declining and the later aging, but by the norms of the industrialized world, the USA is relatively young in demographic terms - though aging for sure. This, in part, because of the relatively high rates of immigration from more Third World countries and also because religion remains more of a cultural and social force than in the rest of the industrialized world.
Thus, while the USA is experiencing the normal demographic patterns of the industrialized world, it is doing so at a relatively slower rate. This giving the USA a modest economic advantage.
I think the percentage of women in the work force for a career counts for the decline.
The image is about fertility rate. You’re talking about birth rate. Two very different things.
I will absolutely agree that Third Wave Feminism, has certainly contributed massively to the decline in birthrates, but it’s a complex issue, that has way more to do with education than political ideologies like feminism. I mean it’s no secret that the poorer a family is, the more children they are likely going to have. That’s just a fact. The first thing we see in emerging nations and emerging economies is legally required primary education. When men and women who can read and write get together, they’ll simply have fewer children than their illiterate parents and neighbors, who may have 5 or more children, but they’ll still have more children than secondary educated couples, who are likely to be in that 2.5/per couple, replacement level bracket. Again, that is simply an inarguable fact! When people with college degrees get together that’s where we see couples with an average 1.6 to 1.4 children, and even that number is actually declining even more over time. When you add to that the catastrophizing over global climate change which has inculcated two generations of Westerner's into believing that the world will literally end in 12 years (as famously stated by US Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in Jan 2019‡ and was predicted by the UN “Special Report on Global warming of 1.5ºC,” which was released in October 2018. Which stated the planet only has 4 years, 5 months left. It’s pretty difficult to want to bring children into what you believe is a “doomed” world.)
These numbers are seen around the world, not just the western nations, that were unfortunate enough to be infected with Third Wave Feminism. First wave feminism was just some women saying “Hey, we’d like to vote please” which at the time MOST women didn't want to vote because voting meant being on fire duty, and obligated voters to military conscription. So this myth that all women wanted the vote, is just not supported by the facts. I met my great grandmother who was born in 1928, and she was sharp as a tack. She told my mom on multiple occasions that her mother never voted because she believe that was “the men’s responsibility”, and that she was too busy with the kids and didn't have time to read the newspaper and 'keep up with all the news”. She believed that only those who were informed about the candidates and the issues should be able to vote. Obviously I believe women should vote. But like my great-great-grandmother believed, I to believe that people should be educated as to the issues and people running for office, before they vote.
Second wave feminism was simply "we want birth control and equal pay"! Well, we have that now, if women were paid less than men for the same work, corporations would never hire men! The reason men get paid more, is that men do work that women largely don’t want to do. How many women want to be plumbers? Well if you own your own small business as a plumber, you will likely be making 6 figures, easily! women only want equality with comfy air conditioned office jobs! You will NEVER see a feminist demanding that the Mining company hire an equal number of women to work 3 miles underground in 120 degree temperatures, in a coal mine, or standing on the docks demanding equal numbers of women working on deep sea fishing boats (one of the most dangerous jobs in the world) in the dangerous waters between Alaska and Russia, EVER!
No, it’s not feminism, it this evil Third Wave “Toxic masculinity”, and “men are worthless” or more recently “I’ll take the bear" feminism, that I detest! I happen to like men who are masculine! I don’t want a husband who wears women's underwear or my clothes, or my makeup, or loves it when a wan he just met on Grindr cu*s in his mouth! I want a REAL MAN! A man who sits with his legs spread because his testicles have not atrophied FFS! A man who has never even thought what it would be like to have a penis in his mouth, because he is a heterosexual, and who knows how to do an oil change, and believes he should also teach his daughters to do it! Not to masculinize them, but so they know about their car, and cannot get ripped off at a garage, or get conned into buying the expensive add-on BS at Jiffy Lube that they don’t need! A REAL man! Luckily my fiancé is such a man!
So is feminism the cause of declining birth-rates? Not really, but it is a symptom of the same cause, or I suppose an unnatural outcome of requiring college education for entry level jobs that women want to do, like office work. Unlike the obvious reasons that college required for nursing and teaching. In STEM fields, women only make-up about 15% of college graduates, but the work force is about 60/40 with women still the minority, but the majority in lower and middle managers. So there is a LOT of hiring of unqualified women, and discrimination against men is the STEM fields. There has to be, because it’s not mathematically possible for 15% of graduates to be over TWICE as qualified as the other 85%. Plus tech companies make no secret that they are actively trying to recruit women, as was hilariously illustrated recently with the 2023 Grace Hopper Celebration, a job fair open to only women. However, they were hoisted on their own petard when the event was flooded my a majority of men who stated that they“identified” as women, in a desperate attempt to find a job. It was hilarious to see them complaining that “some of the men here may not truly identify as women” and the guys were like “okay, then prove we don’t”! Based move guys!
It's no secret that higher education is lower in rural areas than it is an urban and suburban areas. But with the computerization of farming, college degrees are becoming required even for farming communities. As a result, although birth rates are still higher in rural communities where we see "feminism” (or third wave feminism to be precise) is absolutely and inarguably lower than it is is major cities, are now seeing their birth rates, just in the 10 years between 2007 and 2017, plummet to below replacement levels as the chart below shows! Although the gap is widening between birthrates in rural, urban and suburban areas, all areas are now below replacement levels, for the first time since 2008 in suburban and urban areas, and since 2016 in rural communities, which are pretty conservative and third wave (anti-male) feminists are not exactly common! This does however seem to correlate with the rise in ubiquity of college education, and not the rise in Third Wave Feminism, which is becoming less popular!
Compare that to the rate of college education in the US. In the past fifty years, the percentage of urban, suburban, and rural Americans with college degrees has tripled across all groups, while the birth rate has plummeted to below replacement levels in all segments in the US, not just those more likely to see the effects of feminism!**
So it seems pretty clear that education, not feminism, is responsible for declining birth rates, and we see this all over the world, especially in developing nations. India is hardly a bastion of western feminism, and certainly not the more recent Third Wave Feminism, yet as India has pulled itself out of third world status, now values education, even for women, and has the fastest growing economy on earth! However, along with that, the birth rate has plummeted from just over 6 children per woman, to barely hovering at 2, which is just about just at replacement level, but not much! They have however managed to level off the drop, at least for now! But by estimates show, that by 2035, even India will be below replacement levels in births. However, and this is important, the title of the source for the chart below, tells you everything you need to know about college education and fertility rates. The source is Yale University, and they are lauding India for "Making progress in reducing its fertility rates”! THAT, is why fertility rates are dropping… Because colleges and universities believe it is BETTER that people should pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for college and university for degrees, and that women should work for multinational corporations instead of having children!
When you believe that women should enter into a lifetime of debt to obtain a college degree, you are guaranteeing that she will have to work for most of her life. Does that make you a feminist… kinda, but feminists don’t hate men, or the ideas of getting married, and having children. Third Wave Feminists, however do hate men. Misandry is rife in Third Wave Feminism. Just look at the amount of ridiculous women who chose the bear over the man in that ridiculous Man vs. Bear craze that swept the West recently! Hey ladies, I have news for you… Bears are Apex predators, they will absolutely 100% kill you and eat you at SOME point! Men, however are more likely to protect you from the bear than rape you, or kill you! If you think otherwise, there's nothing that will ever convince you of reality. You've already drunk the Kool-Aid. This is coming from a woman who WAS raped, and by a family member at that! I would still one hundred percent choose a MAN over a bear FFS!
Education, or even being a feminist, does not make a woman hate men, or not want to have children per se, but it definitely increases the likelihood that women will not want children, well at least until it’s too late to have three of more! Not all women with college degrees feel this way. My own mother is a trauma surgeon. She spent four years in college, four years in medical school, then still had to spend years in the US Army specializing to become a surgeon, and then to specializing to become a trauma surgeon! Yet, she still had three children, she married a man she loves, (after only knowing him for three months) and is still very happily married to him! My mother doesn't consider herself a feminist, but she does say she believes in many feminist values. However, my mother is vehemently against this Third Wave Feminism, which she calls "a group of rabid man hating harpies, who'll die alone and childless surrounded by cats who will eat her corpse, the second she dies!”. So no, I don’t believe feminism is the reason for the decline in fertility (or more accurately, the decline in birth rates) because these women are still fertile, they just choose NOT to have children, there's a big difference. Just ask women who desperately want to have children, but are infertile. All education, decreases the amount of children a woman will have, primary and secondary educated women are more likely to have three or more children. Women who have college degrees are more likely to have to or less children. The statistics in developing nations where feminism does not exist bear that out, as do stats in the west, where it does exist.
I sincerely hope this helps answer you question, and adds value to the conversation.
Sincerely, Laura 🤗 🥰
SOURCES ⬇️
‡Source
*Source:
**Source https://irjci.blogspot.com/many more rural people have a college degree
***Source https://e360.yale.edu/ india is making progress in slowing its population growth
You should post this as a MyTake. Very well done.
***The FirstTwo Sources did not post! Here they are***
‡Source www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-climate-change-world-will-end-12-years-un-report-1300873
*Source: www.usnews.com/.../as-fertility-rates-fall-across-us-gap-widens-between-rural-and-urban-counties
Wow! Thank you so much Tom. Seriously, that really means a lot to me. Could you think of good title for this as a My Take? Also, do you think I’ll get a lot of pushback from the so-called “Black pilled” or "MGTOW” guys? I cannot stand confrontation.
@CrazyGirl2 Don't worry about confrontation. Someone will always complain about anything. There are many who would argue against the statement "the sky is blue."
I'll defer to you for a title but you did bold "Third Wave Feminism", or maybe a more descriptive title "A possible explanation for changes in birthrates".
Best wishes.
Thank you! Seriously, that really meant a lot to me, what you wrote. Also I like the "A possible explanation for changes in birthrates”. as a starting point, I’ll give it some serious consideration! I really appreciate your input.
Laura 🤗 🥰
Defining "fertility" rates by the number of children an average woman has during her lifetime is seems erroneous.
It seems to me that fertility is about the physical ability to get pregnant, not the number of children a woman actually produces.
Is a woman who chooses not to have children infertile?
I think there are any number of factors that could contribute to fewer births.
Since strongly patriarchal Islamic countries like Libya and Saudi Arabia are barely over 2.0, it would seem to rule out feminism as being a strong factor. And what Latin American countries are dominated by feminism?
Countries with high numbers (mostly in sub-Saharan Africa) are probably pastoral or agrarian. People probably live mostly on farms and in villages as opposed to cities.
Because the countries that are below 2.0 are in Europe, north and south Asia, and the western hemisphere, I am thinking factors that contribute to low numbers may have to do with modern lifestyle.
- Materialistic, modern culture: city life, glass and concrete; glitz; sensory stimulation; hedonism; soul sucking office work; competition, not for comfort and happiness, but for status. Worship of expensive cars, clothes, big houses, appliances, devices and expensive people. I think all that stuff is unnatural and toxic to mental health.
- The economy. The fact that few people can afford an apartment, let alone support a family, on one income. Why would someone with a brain want to bring children into the world that they cannot afford to properly care for?
- The declining state of "modern" countries where the possibility of a happy future for children is diminishing.
- The availability of contraception that gives sexually active women control over whether or not they get pregnant. Third world countries have less access to contraception.
- The unhealthy mental state of young men and women. They are lured by commercialism into wanting perfect looking mates. They use ratings and words like "high status" and "alpha". They think average =sub par.
Some men want Stepford wives. And some women want the comforts of wealth without work. But neither have the personalities and values to make loyal, loving partners because they are selfish. And when they can't get what they want, they blame anyone but themselves.
- Immersion in the Matrix-world of electronc devices rather than appreciation for the real world.
- Increase in the diagnosing of mental health and behavioral disorders so that more and more kids can be drugged.
- The promotion of homosexuality and transgenderism. Those people will never have any kids.
Then there are environmental factors that may cause actual infertility.
Agricultural poisons and heavy metals in our food, air and water.
Endocrine disruptors in clothing, furniture, electronics, food packaging.
Phthalates interfere with the production of androgen (testosterone), a hormone critical in male development and relevant to females as well. Phthalates are used in hundreds of products, including many food and beverage containers and plastic wraps. People are exposed to these EDCs when they leach into foods or are released when containers are microwaved. Many companies have voluntarily removed phthalates from their products and advertise them as “phthalate-free”. Other plastic containers, which contain phthalates, have the number "3" and “V” or “PVC” in the recycling symbol.
Among the phenol class of compounds considered to be EDCs, bisphenol A (BPA) is one of the best known and most pervasive. In humans, it is linked to reduced egg quality and other aspects of egg viability in patients seeking fertility treatment.
Radiation from wi-fi devices.
The 70+ unregulated vaccines that children are now subjected to may very well negatively effect health and fertility.
The new mRNA shots that are known to cause miscarriages, still births and to accumulate in male and female gonads. One of the goals of that shot may very well have been to reduce human population.
But feminism? Pfffft
it's one of the main reasons why but it's not the only cause. there's the high cost of living that's skyrocketing since the trad days (so even if we we're to go back to tradition a kid is still $$$$$$ and it would be actually even less affordable and doable than with feminism since you'd be cutting out an income), birth control methods, the need to have a lot of kids being obselete (huge families were mainly a peasant thing not a bourgeois or elite thing, to create a lot of future child helpers on farms and stuff like that. and also to get multiple boys so at least you have a son that survives high past child mortality rate. though that last thing being obselete would be cause of feminism), everyone (not just women) delaying marriage because of culture shifts to do with extending youth + longer studies + harder time getting employement + harder time getting promoted to a decent wage, etc than all delay the traditional markers of adulthood until increasingly late (so you'll have less time to have kids or that many kids. or for your future partner to be able to potentially conceive) , casul sex/casual dating/etc culture which is something a lot of men partake in too so it makes marriage less appealing to a lot of those guys cos they dont need to get married to get pussy & love anymore
also forgot to add modern living with all the chemicals and plastic, etc has caused a lottt of people to become infertile or have problems conceiving
i would say feminism is a symptom, not the underlying problem, which is: in family sociology we know that having children makes people more unhappy with their life. that unhappiness is not caused by the fact they are having children but because children are so costly, they reduce the household budget so much that it cuts into peoples overall life satisfaction.
so if you're living in a society where you can have a career making enough money in your work years to be able to finance your retirement, you don't need children. in fact you're happier without. and that's why you see birth rates declining in my opinion. that's why birth rates are still high in poor countries, cause they have children as sort of insurance to be able to get by with older age when they depend on their childrens help to survive.
i'm sure a shift in societal values that focus more on individual hedonism, entitlement and egoism do their part but i do think feminism is only a consequence of all that, not a cause.
Cost. The cost of having children is the #1 reason for the decline in birth rate.
Cost of living is ever on the rise and wages for most people aren't keeping up. Some people still have to try and work 2 jobs until they can find better pay elsewhere. Groceries keep raising little by little; we've all seen the price of milk and eggs fluctuate wildly over the last few years. Now, factoring in things like gas, rent/mortgage, water, electricity, and other bills, having a baby forces you to factor in a multitude of different expenses starting with prenatal care. Mind you, not all health insurances cover all of the medical expenses an expecting mother can accumulate between that first obgyn visit and when she leaves the hospital after giving birth.
I guarantee you that if the cost of living and Healthcare go down, birthrates go back up.
No it's due to the lack of need. Population is high and Death rates are lower.
Meanwhile you go to Africa well guess what there death rates are much higher therefore you need more life to outweigh such a fact.
Creatures are inherently aware of their own habitat, and humans of course pick up on the fact there is enough of us.
The purpose to reproducing is simply to multiply but there is a point we aren't meant to. Now other creatures never really have this issue, and why? Because many upon many things kill them naturally in the wild animals don't live that long nor take up much space.
Meanwhile us humans have tried to defeat those things that kill us, Aka Parasites/Diseases/Viruses and Predators or the lack of food.
So we naturally live longer than we should and like anything there is a give and take.
The human population is already far more than it should be. We do not need a stable global population, we need a realistic one, if you live in a country with low income, food shortages, starvation etc, you do not need more kids.
the world need to lose a good few billion.
Since 1980 the population has doubled, that is not sustainable.
with countries having crazy population growths where there is no chance to feed and sustain that population, they need to get a grip and start limiting population growth.
The world could go back to 1980 population levels and stand a chance at feeding itself.
Overpopulation, Women have more flexibility with their lives, Cost of Living too damn high, Low Wages, Housing Market sucks, Worrying About Their Children’s Futures having less benefits / privileges than previous generations, Environmental Damage, CO2 Pollution Reaching All Time High Effecting Climate, etc.
All these are contributing factors, for the minority to believe the concept of ‘FEMINISM’ itself is the cause are forgetting about the women who fought for the rights to vote, worked in the factories to help our brave troops defeat the Nazi Regime, and those that continued to get more benefits & footing in the workplace they deserve, and so much more… Not once has it contributed to the “downfall” of human society.
In fact since Ancient Rome, women have gained a little bit of freedom & a little bit of independence also a little bit of self control / self determination also building connections also gaining powers… Our human population has been moving forward. After women entered the factories to help their men fight in WWII, baby rates skyrocketed. IF Feminism truly was the downfall of human birth rates then this doesn’t add up. Simply doesn’t add up.
"Major factor". Hmm - what constitutes "major"? 10%? 20%? 51%?
We were under that in the Carter years. Our current dip (under 2.1 started with Obama and while sneaking up a bit to the positive, it's still under the accepted replacement rate of 2.1. People just can't afford to raise a family. We know of couples who just refuse to have kids, just focusing on their interest, their precious lives of doing whatever they want. What is going to happen when they expect to retire? The Social Security Ponzi scheme will likely blow up.
No. Going around blaming a movement that only an extreme few even pay attention to is ridiculous.
The decline rate in birth fertility has to do with the cost of living that seems to rise almost weekly.
Life is challenging supporting yourself financially, now adding a child especially more than one child when you're not financially stable is a big mistake and will add serious pressure to your life and people understand such will be the case if the cost of living is constantly rising yet salaries don't keep up as the same rate of inflation especially housing and groceries.
The reason people had huge families years ago was most of the kids would perish from TB or if they did reach adulthood get their head blown off by a cannon. Living costs were also lower, as the saying goes to have kids now you either have to be wealthy or on welfare. Contraception is much better now too.
Nah, I expect it to be a very small factor. The biggest decline in fertility rates is of course proper anticonception. In the past if all you had was a pullout method your going to screw that up at some point and have a kid, now that risk is very small. That makes having children a more tactical / personal choice rather than inevitable. And for most people that can hardly get by in the current economy that choice will be not to have children since they have no idea how they could possibly get the money or a house to raise them in.
The economy needs fixing to the point where a single income is enough to sustain a family again. Then there is plenty of room for proper children raising and more people will be open to doing it as a result.
I think it can be one of the causes for the decline in fertility rate, but not the only cause. Though this is not true about every single woman that follows feminist views, but it can certainly affect their interest and enthusiasm in having children and spend time for their upbringing.
Yea Feminism leads to extinction of Japan and other places, it needs to be stopped.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/03/japan-low-births-population-decline-2021/
I don't think it has to do with feminism. There are women who are not feminists and they don't have children.
I believe it has to do with the cost of living, concerns about climate change and personal choices. Also the fact that in most countries women are no longer forced to get married and have children.
Kids are too expensive to raise today. Unless you are on welfare where you are rewarded for each illegitimate kid you have it is very difficult to have more than one or two kids. It was common when I was growing up to see families with 5,6 or even 7 kids.
Kids cost boatloads of cash today between food, clothes and healthcare and then we have college to deal with after that.
Feminist are extremist! Anyways, so countries like China, for example, with the highest population in the world next to India, made it a law that each family can only have a set amount of children. 1 or 2? I'm sure there are other governments that do it too. That literally has nothing to do with feminism or any decline. Might as well blame the gay guys and gals too, as they also contribute to the low rates.
The Chinese one-child law has been repealed for quite some time, due to an overaged population.
So they're allowing more kids, when did they change the law?
2015. And it wasn’t harshly punished anymore a few years before that.
They need more workers and soldiers. They are thinking. Everyone thinks the real threat is Russia. Meanwhile, China, a sleeping giant for thousands of years, is waking up. I have Chinese friends, even they agree they notice a stir in their country
If a next big war is coming, it will be with China, I have no doubt about that. And probably be started with their attempted invasion of Taiwan. The Nixon quote about the SSSR being "a slave state in its ultimate development" has been more true for China for some time than it ever was for the Soviet nations.
Not to mention, they took control of the biggest economic powerhouse in the world, Hong Kong. They planned covid, they planned Hong Kong take over, they have given large amounts of money to terrorism and humanitarian efforts. Figure that out? The US military follows Sun Tzu the Art of War in most of their tactics. The USA owes them money beyond a number we can fathom.